Gruk lets pursue this here and see where we end up. make a statement and lets discuss it and see were we get. lets make this free’er than the sandbocks ed_rant thread, so divergence is allowed 🙂
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seeking reality 
November 14, 2007 at 3:10 am
sounds good 🙂 My case is that the Jewish people had the old testament as their bible. Jesus is what made the Christians Christians. The New Testament was written after the coming of Christ so therefore, Christianity begins with the new testament.
Now this is just the way I understand it, please do correct me if I’m wrong
November 14, 2007 at 3:53 am
The God of the old testament is the God of the new testament. He didn’t change in the middle 😉 God cannot change. I think we both know that though.
To say that Christianity started somewhere at some time is to say something about it, so lets start with defining what Christianity is.
make a proposition and well work from that.
November 14, 2007 at 4:02 am
The way I see it, Christianity is the acknowledgment of the coming of Jesus – the Messiah as was prophesised, and belief in his teachings. I personally believe that Jesus clarified the teachings of the old testament and corrected people where they were wrong and where the religion had been corrupted in favor of man.
The way I have always seen it is this: Jesus came along and said that yes the Jews are the chosen people but now to find God they had to follow him.
Ok now correct me:)
November 14, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Jesus did shine light on the old testament and also fulfill many many prophecy’s.
Why i ask though? Is there a point in that? Surely that wasn’t reason enough to come down to earth, leave God the Farther, take on the form of a man, and be killed?
‘but now to find God they had to follow him.’
^^ Why? Did something change? God did not change, he cannot. What is the point of finding God anyway? also does following Jesus have to do with it?
November 14, 2007 at 11:45 pm
As mentioned and confirmed Jesus shone light and clarified the old testament. following Jesus implies listening to what he had to say about it. Having to ‘follow Jesus to find God’ basically means if you carry on the way you’re going and aren’t going to listen to Jesus you won’t enter Gods kingdom.
Jesus was sent to earth because the people claimed to hear Gods word but they had forgotten how to act towards each other. Jesus came to set an example and show us how to act.
November 15, 2007 at 1:36 am
Thats all nice and those things are not wrong. Jesus did come to show us how to live and love and stuff by example.
But its not the real point either.
You touched on it when you said “…aren’t going to listen to Jesus…” implying that he had something to say, some way to enter Gods kingdom.
It goes a little like this:
God is awesome. He is perfect, all loving.
We are not, were just dudes.
Thus we cannot hang out with God, because God would have to judge us, he cannot be around imperfection without righting it.
God loves us immensely (as i alluded to above), and wants us to not be separated from him, he does not want to judge us(see love point).
Thus we have a problem. This is called the problem of sin.
God, as again said above, is totally awesome, so problems like this dont stop him.
He himself come’s to earth to take the judgment for everyone, all at once. (He can do this because of some technicalities)
Thus via his love for us, we are able to come to God pure. This free gift is called Grace.
What have we done to deserve this? Nothing. What can we do about it? Nothing.
God does all the work. hes good like that. we but have to accept.
That in core is Christianity and the basis of ‘how to enter Gods kingdom’.
November 16, 2007 at 12:35 am
this is summed up nicely in Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast.
November 17, 2007 at 5:04 am
Adam!! Hiii.